Autor Thema: "Benommen" vs Untote  (Gelesen 213 mal)

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MagicMerlin

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"Benommen" vs Untote
« am: 10. Oktober 2017, 13:29:51 »
Hi

Frage: Funktioniert "benommen" (via Metamagie) in Zusammenhang mit Untoten? Bin mir jetzt nicht 100% sicher, ob das in den Bereich Geistesbeinflussung faellt und somit nicht geht, da es der Zauber ja tut. Vermute aber mal "ja".

Sol

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"Benommen" vs Untote
« Antwort #1 am: 10. Oktober 2017, 13:52:48 »
Zitat
Dazing Spell (Metamagic)

You can daze creatures with the power of your spells.

Benefit: You can modify a spell to daze a creature damaged by the spell. When a creature takes damage from this spell, they become dazed for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw, a successful save negates the daze effect. If the spell does not allow a save, the target can make a Will save to negate the daze effect. If the spell effect also causes the creature to become dazed, the duration of this metamagic effect is added to the duration of the spell.

Level Increase: +3 (a dazing spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

Spells that do not inflict damage do not benefit from this feat.

Zitat
Dazed

The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.

A dazed condition typically lasts 1 round.

Zitat
Undead

Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces.

An undead creature has the following features.

    d8 Hit Die.
    Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (medium progression).
    Good Will Saves.
    Skill points equal to 4 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. Many undead, however, are mindless and gain no skill points or feats. The following are class skills for undead: Climb, Disguise, Fly, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Stealth.

Traits: An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

    No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution(such as when calculating a breath weapon’s DC).
    Darkvision 60 feet.
    Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
    Immunity to bleed, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
    Not subject to nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), as well as to exhaustion and fatigue effects.
    Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
    Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
    Not at risk of death from massive damage, but is immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points.
    Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
    Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
    Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
    Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.
    Per the spell magic jar: “Undead creatures are powered by negative energy. Only sentient undead creatures have, or are, souls.” This is an important sentence when considering any spells or effects which reference “souls.”

Grundsätzlich funktioniert Dazing Spell auch gegen einen Untoten!

Warum verwende ich die Formulierung "grundsätzlich"? Weil es je nach dem, welche Magie man nimmt Ausnahmen von dieser Regel gibt, dass Dazing Spell Wirkung entfaltet.

Wirkt man einen Banshee Blast (Quelle: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/banshee-blast/) mit Dazing Spell, dann wirkt der Zauber zu 100% nicht auf den Untoten auch nicht der "dazed" effect, denn dem ganzen liegt z.B. ein "death effect" zugrunde. Gegen alles, was die Magie normalerweise anrichten würde, ist der Untote halt komplett immun.

Außerdem gilt das hier:
Zitat
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

Wenn die Ausnahme in Klammern nicht vorliegt, dann ist der Untote auch gegen die dazed Wirkung des Fort-Spells natürlich immun.

Es ist nirgendwo ersichtlich, dass eine dazed condition zwingend als etwas "geistesbeeinflussendes" im regeltechnischen Sinne gesehen werden muss. Bei Blasphemy z.B. behindert einen die unheilige Energie, die dem Zauber inne wohnt. Ich würde diesen speziellen Aspekt nicht als "geistesbeeinflussend" im regeltechnischen Sinne in PF interpretieren.

Blasphemy ist auch  "evocation [evil, sonic]". Dies mag egal sein, wenn bei einzelnen Eigenschaften "mind-affecting effect" dahinterstehen sollte, dies ist beim dazed in der Zauberbeschreibung aber eben gerade nicht der Fall.

Edit:

Siehe auch die Diskussion hier:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ou18?Dazing-MetamagicDazzing-Assault-on
« Letzte Änderung: 10. Oktober 2017, 14:01:12 von Sol »
"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light." (B5)