Thema: 4E - Völker

[Zanan]

"Rasse" passt zu Sahuagin z.B. aber auch nicht wirklich. Da ist Volk schon besser..

Naja, Belgier sind ja auch keine guten Schraubenschlüssel.

[Zanan]

Ob Rasse oder Volk, Rich Baker hat ein Gerücht ad acta gelegt:

No warforged in FR, I promise.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14052953&postcount=764

Nemesis und Tymora sei Dank!

[Blackthorne]

Sehr gut. Wo kämen wir denn da auch hin, wenn ein interessantes und innovatives Vol...pardon, Rasse, den ewig langweiligen Kleinkriegen zwischen diversen Drow-Rotten die Schau stehlen würde?  

[Zanan]

Na, da habe ich doch nicht etwa einem Halbgolemspieler eine schlechte Botschaft überbracht?!  

Aber vielleicht sind ja die Whisper Gnomes nun dabei und rollen die Drow auf?

[Blackthorne]

Na, da habe ich doch nicht etwa einem Halbgolemspieler eine schlechte Botschaft überbracht?!  

Nö, wir sind da ohnehin etwas liberaler eingestellt. Da brauch ich keinen offiziellen Support.

[Argamae]

Aus der wikipedia:

Rasse ist ein Klassifizierungsschema der Biologie für Pflanzen und Tiere, die Formengruppen unterhalb des Artniveaus (Spezies) beschreiben. Angehörige verschiedener Rassen der selben Art sind untereinander fruchtbar.

Also ist Rasse genau das richtige Wort für die allermeisten "Spielerlebewesen" - denn Mischlinge aller Kulör sind ja weit verbreitet. Die Art bzw. Spezies ist ja "Humanoide".

Das ist nur die halbe Wahrheit. Was steht denn unter "Volk"?

Da steht (vereinfacht), daß "Volk" ein kulturell-staatlicher Begriff ist, der eine Gemeinschaft beschreibt. Die meisten Fantasy-Nationen haben ein bunt gemischtes Volk, daß aus mehreren Rassen und sogar Spezies/Arten besteht.
Fürs Protokoll: ich bin ebenfalls ein vehementer Verfechter der Wiedereinführung von "Rasse". Die Verwendung von "Volk" ist in den meisten Zusammenhängen, wie sie in den D&D-Regeln auftauchen, schlichtweg falsch.

[Berandor]

Was das hier schon drin?

Logan Bonner

Now I'm spending my days typing in monster numbers. I hadn't worked on monsters much, so it's cool to see what they're doing. I did wolves most recently, and gnomes are up next. (Gnomes rock, I don't care what anyone says.)

Also Gnome nur im MM – oder nur Fehlinfo? (Elfen waren ja auch im MM 3E)

[Zanan]

Nun, ich denke mal, sie werden wieder (fast*) alle Rassen im MM nochmals drin haben, so als "Krieger Stufe 1". Bei denen, die nicht im PHB sind wird der "XYZ als Spielerrasse" - Eintrag nur etwas länger sein.

*Menschen und Halb-Dingens sind im MM 3,5 nicht drin, Gnome, Halblinge, Elfen, Zwerge und dergleichen schon.

[Zechi]

Nochmal was von Rich Baker:

Actually, I expect that sun elves, moon elves, and star elves would all fall into the description of "eladrin" for game stats, while wood elves and green elves would be "elves." But we're still going to call them sun elves, star elves, etc., for the most part. Nobody in Faerun would call those folks eladrins, they'd call them ar-tel-quessir, sun elves, or gold elves.

[Zechi]

Was größeres neues über die Völker aus dem Races und Classes Buch:

First of all bear in mind that the book reflects the state of the art as of Aug 2007, before the announcement. It still has May as the release date. It is full of fluff and art. Sometime a whole page is just a picture, so don’t expect longish text. There is no mechanic, just a few mentions that hint at mechanics.

Ability scores
Ability score adjustment have a net positive benefit (i.e. not of the type -2 / +2). I think that it will be a flat +2 most of the time. In the entry for dwarves it says that the charisma penalty is gone, thus they might have +2 Con, and that is all.

Races
Each race seems to have a clear “homeland”. Dwarves live in mountains, elves in forests. Now they come up with something for all major races. Humans are tied to plains, Halfling to rivers (swamps and marshes), Dragonborn to deserts (at least their great empire were in desert).

I will list a favoured class. As we know, mechanically it is not the favoured class of 3.x, but they admit, that some races are better at being certain classes. The “favoured class” is not listed as such, I inferred it from the text.

Human
They will remain the flexible, adaptable race as in 3.x.
Their negative personality flaw is corruptible (I don’t think it is mechanic, just fluff or the basis of some racial feat).
The text mention that humans never give up, and try thing again-and-again; this can be a racial characteristic (allow retry in some cases).
Each of them know how to handle at least one weapon (fluff or ability?).
Their homeland is the plains. Horses are important to them.
Favoured class: They fit to all classes equally well (or at least more or less equally well, the text is not that clear hear).

Dwarf
Resilient industrious folks.
One of their racial feat allow a second “second wind”.
They no longer have darkvision, only low light vision (most races will have only normal vision).
Favoured class: Fighter

Eladrin
They are the magical high elves. Both elves and eladrins were elves, but one preferred magic and stone, while the other nature and the woods.
One of their racial feats allows them to briefly enter Feywild and reemerge at another place, making a short teleport (was hinted at one of the playtest report, right?).
Favoured class: Wizard

Elf
Favoured class: Ranger

Dragonborn
Dragonborn are kin to dragon, they are egg laying (so why on Earth do females need a halter?). They are a strong race with martial incline. I think dragonborn replaces half-orc as the main damage dealing race.
At higher level they can choose racial feat that gives them breath weapon or wings.
Probably have claw attack.
Favoured class: warlord

Halfling
Now they admit, that the main source of inspiration for the 3.x halfling is the kender. We suspected it all along. They are still the lucky, bit thievery race as they were. Added their liking for rivers and boats (and thus being a merchant and wandered).
Favoured class: Rogue

Tiefling
Lots of fluff, but really not so much crunch. I never played them, so I don’t know how they were in 3.x. Their look is rather unified now.
Favoured class: Warlock

Gruß Zechi

[Zechi]

Und ein paar comments von dem glücklichen Ungarn mit dem Race&Classes Preview Buch :

   * Warforged is mentioned. Apart from the core races (human, elf, eladrin, thiefling, dragonborn, dwarf and halfling) gnome, drow, celestial (aasimar) and warforged is mentioned for a paragraph or two.
    * A high elf is a high elf. Most races have a little on origin, history, culture and society. Humans got more space because their status is not so clear. A dwarf is a stereotype (a bearded, small human with a gruffy attitude). Humans are variable, thus there is more musing on them. All in all I found it well writen and they worth the extra pages.
    * Elves really had 2.5 or so pages. Most have 2-3, except for humans. Take into note that there is a lot of art in the book. Full page art mind you. Cool art I have to add.
    * Gnome were neither elves nor dwarves, but a little bit of both. Lacked focus.
    * Dwarves and halfling are a bit taller now. They are right, an average halfling were akin to a 3 years old (I have a daughter of that age) and it is just hard to imagine for people. Dwarves are a bit taller too (given the trend dwaves will be 6-8' be 6th edition...).
    * Dragonborn are a true breeding race that has nothing to do with humans. They are lizards (egg laying). They were never a half race.
    * Tiefling on the other hand can breed with humans. The result is always a thiefling. I won't give away fluff from the book, but it is great! But their grandparent are definitely not demons, they are thieflings. As for their distant past ancestry, but and read the book.
    * They said that back then when they designed 3rd, they felt that kenders are cool, but a bit too comic/not serious enough. So halfling (in 3rd and in 4th also) have some of the personality of kenders but they are a serious race. The focus is rivers.
    * [Tieflings are]Unified in the sense, that they are not the son/daughter of a myriad of devils/demons with wastly different appearance. They are a race, not a collective name for something. They pass for humans from a distance. The text says that they have a small hord extending from their brow and a narrow tail. As they grow in power these thing get more pronounced. In the arts they have very pronounced tail and horn.
    * ...while elves live in the forest in wooden houses (probably), eladrin built cities in the Feywild.
    * Strange as it is, as half-elves get mentioned from the announcement of 4th edition, but there is nothing in the book about them.

[Zechi]

Interessant sind übrigens die Anmerkungen zu dem Tiefling. Es wird deutlich, dass sich die Designer durchaus über die in dem Warlock-Thread diskutierten Bedenken Gedanken gemacht haben und sich erklärt warum es relativ viele gibt und sie ein eigenes "richtiges" Volk sind.

Gruß Zechi

[Berandor]

Ich kopier das einfach mal hier rein, weil die Info laut ENWOrld im Rassen- und Klassenbuch stand, in der Völkerhälfte.

   * Ability damage is gone.
    * Dragonborn scales are bronze or golden in color.
    * Elves are now as tall (or taller) than humans, though still very slender and graceful.
    * Halflings are described as having the tendency to "acquire" things due to intense curiosity (much as the Dragonlance kender do). They are now a bit taller than before, about 4 feet on average, weighing about 65 pounds.
    * Azers and galeb-dur are mentioned as once-dwarves who became completely enslaved by their ancient giant masters.
    * Tieflings are not human and demonic offspring, but are the true-breeding descendants of an ancient empire that made dark and terrible pacts with the Nine Hells. Their fiendish visage is actually a manifestation of a curse, due to their progenitors' crimes. They're more closely tried to devils than demons.
    * Known gods include Bahamut, Corellon (god of magic), Io ("the ancient diety," now dead and split into Bahamut and Tiamat), Lolth, Moradin, Obad-Hai (god of the wilderness), Sehanine (goddess of the moon), Tiamat, and Zehir (god of night).

In General:  As you already know, all races can select racial feats that allow racial traits to develop and expand as the character rises in level. Level adjustments are gone, with all the new races largely equal in power. It is also mentioned that when drow finally appear in some future text, many of their powerful racial abilities (levitation, darkness, etc.) will be relegated to feats to balance them out.

Humans: Now referred to as the most “resilient” race, they receive some kind of feat bonus (“a little extra treat”) and racial feats that involve “dramatic action and dramatic recovery.”

Dragonborn: No longer the race born of a special pact with Bahamut as presented in Races of the Dragon, these guys have been the lesser cousins of dragons since the beginning. In the Points of Light setting, they once ruled a mighty empire later destroyed in a cataclysmic war with the Tiefling empire, and are now organized into wandering clans which sometimes serve as mercenary companies. They have a reputation as honorable warriors who keep their word, but are sometimes arrogant and easily offended. Their racial feats involve things like breath weapons and wings.

Dwarves: Pretty much the same, but their back history now involves an era in which they were slaves to giants, which explains the enmity between the two races. It is also mentioned that most races, including dwarves, no longer possess darkvision (but dwarves have low-light vision). Dwarves also no longer possess a Charisma penalty, and their racial abilities are oriented towards the defender role and underground adaptation.

As an aside, it is mentioned that dwarf women do not have beards, and the new artwork makes them look a lot more feminine, which was intentional on the part of the designers.

Elves/Eladrin: These were once the same race, along with the drow. They inhabited the Feywild, a faerie realm that exists alongside the human-dominated one, but a war precipitated by the drow split the race into three. Basically, elves embody the nature-oriented aspect of elves, and eladrin the magical one. Other elven subraces will exist, but the differences between them will simply be cultural—gray elves, sun elves and moon elves will be eladrin and wood, green and wild elves just elves. Not much is said about the racial abilities elves and eladrin possess, other than elves make for good rangers and eladrin good wizards.

It is also mentioned that 4E elves and eladrin will be taller in stature.

Halflings: These also get a stature boost, and will now be about four feet tall on average. They are now presented as a nomadic race that travels on river barges, one that is instrumental in promoting trade amongst the races, granting them something of an “invisible empire” across the land. They are differentiated from hobbits in that they are lean and athletic rather than portly (and now they wear shoes, too). Their racial abilities evidently involve luck, trickery and trade. It is also mentioned they are good at raising and training animals.

Tieflings: The 4E Tieflings evolved from the corrupt nobility of an ancient, powerful human empire that trafficked with devils to increase their power. As mentioned above, this empire was destroyed in a titanic war with the Dragonborn empire. Not much is said about their racial abilities, other than they have been expanded since 3E and they make good Warlocks. It is also once mentioned that they are “charming,” so I suppose the Charisma penalty is gone.

Other races: A Celestial race, Drow, Gnomes and Warforged are also evidently in the works, but little had been decided on at the time the book was printed, so I guess they won’t be in the first Player’s Handbook. Warforged will apparently be a core race, and it is mentioned that construct immunities will be toned down in 4E. The Celestial race will not be called the Aasimar, and will be a race “plunged through the same transforming fires” as the Tiefling. Gnomes are apparently proving problematic to design--they went through several concepts and rejected them all, with no decision having been reached at the time the book was finished.

[Wormys_Queue]

Halflings are described as having the tendency to "acquire" things due to intense curiosity (much as the Dragonlance kender do).

:urgs

[Archoangel]

Halflings are described as having the tendency to "acquire" things due to intense curiosity (much as the Dragonlance kender do).

 :dafür: