Thema: 4E - Campaign Settings

[Zechi]

Ein kleiner aber möglicherweise sehr interessanter Scoop von EN-World:

The Gamer Dome has a Forgotten Realms scoop from the GAMA trade show:

    Forgotten Realms 4e is three books, period, done, end of line: Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, Player’s Guide to FR, and DM’s Guide to FR. All settings will be done like that, one per year, until they run out of settings. They mentioned Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, and Spelljammer as settings on their list! Eberron, of course, is the ‘09 setting release (same three books), but it will also get DDI updates starting in June.


WotC's Chris Sims comments here on The Gamer Dome's information:

    ... the news bite is wrong. The three books are: Campaign Guide (DM), Player's Guide (players, and DM for good measure), and Adventure (everyone). Check the 2008 Wizards D&D Product Release Schedule for FR game product.

    And the fact that a setting is "on the list" shouldn't be taken as "Wizards is definitely publishing this setting." It just means the setting is on the list for possible future use.

Ich weiß nicht ob ich mich darüber freuen oder heulen soll. Nur drei Bücher für die FR und dann vorbei? Das tut einem FR-Fan natürlich mehr als weh, wenn das stimmen sollte. SO richtig bestätigt wird es nicht, aber auch nicht dementiert.

Schön ist natürlich, dass WotC scheinbar darüber nachdenkt einige der alten Settings neu aufzulegen und sie haben ja auch noch drei Settings vom Contest in Reserve (auch das von Rich Burlew).

Gruß Zechi

[Nathan Grey]

Hmm, natürlich spart man dann einen Haufen Geld, aber ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, dass die Wizards es sich entgehen lassen die Welten-Kuh zu melken. Vielleicht kommen für jedes Setting diese drei Sachen (CS, PGt..., Adventure) im Erscheinungsjahr raus und danach noch mehr sachen.

Wie es gibt ne Welt von Rich Burlew? OotS-Rollenspiel oder wie?

[TheRaven]

Wizards of the Coast announced a contest to find a new campaign setting for their D&D game, dubbed the Fantasy Setting Search. From a field of over 11,000 gamers who sent in one-page descriptions of their worlds, one of Burlew's four entries was chosen as a finalist. He was asked by Wizards to produce a 100-page setting bible for his world, competing against two other designers. He was also offered additional writing work from Wizards of the Coast the following year, contributing monsters like the battletitan and the shadesteel golem to Monster Manual III. His entry in the setting search remains the unpublished property of Wizards of the Coast, and Burlew is under a non-disclosure agreement to not discuss it.
source:wikipedia

Q: What was your setting like? Will it ever be published?
A: Sorry, Wizards owns the rights to that setting now, and it is up to them whether they ever wish to discuss it, much less publish it. I am under a strict Non-Disclosure Agreement not to discuss it.
source:GitP

Und nein, hat nichts mit OotS zu tun.

[Nathan Grey]

Ist wohl auch besser so, wäre viel zu abgedreht. Ausserdem müssten wir dann auch auf weitere Comics verzichten. Wer weiss vielleicht sehen wir die Welt ja noch, würde mich wirklich interessieren, was sich Mr. Burlew da ausgedacht hat.

[DU#1229]

Sehr schöne Info. Genug Material zum Ausschlachten und hoffentlich viel, viel fluff  

[Arldwulf]

@Zechi: Wurde nicht eigentlich gesagt dass die Weiterentwicklung der Welt wieder stärker über Abenteuer ablaufen soll?

Denn wenn dort steht:

The three books are: Campaign Guide (DM), Player's Guide (players, and DM for good measure), and Adventure (everyone).

ist mit Adventure ja sicher nicht nur ein einzelnes gemeint, oder? Oder handelt es sich dabei um ein Buch in dem dann mehrere Abenteuer und Abenteuerideen drin sind?

[Windjammer]

They mentioned Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, and Spelljammer as settings on their list! ... Reply:  the fact that a setting is "on the list" shouldn't be taken as "Wizards is definitely publishing this setting." It just means the setting is on the list for possible future use.

Mit diesen vagen Aussagen wurde doch schon bei der DDX um sich geworfen. Bill Slavicsek meinte damals lediglich, jedes der genannten Settings hat einen Fan im R&D Team, und dass da bei zukuenftigen Produkten nichts ausgeschlossen sei. Dass aber solch private Faibles Gewicht bei Entscheidungen ueber die Produktlinie hat, wage ich jetzt mal zu bezweifeln.

Aus demselben Grund ist das mit den 3 FR Baenden schon SEHR unwahrscheinlich. Ja, es gibt einen angekuendigten Trend weg von der Materialfuelle (Stichwort "Martial Companion" sei das einzige splat book, dass man als melee char braucht). Aber der ist doch auch rein von den Verkaufszahlen bestimmt, weil sich die Huelle an Splat- und Monster-books immer noch weniger verkauften. D.h., es sei denn die 3 neuen FR Baende verkaufen sich insgesamt besser als die 15+ Hardcover bisher, wird Hasbro einen feuchten darauf geben, diese "Ankuendigungen" gegenueber den konsumgeilsten aller D&D Fans (ja, IHR seid gemeint) die naechsten 5 Jahre durchzuziehen.

[Anita Blake]

Ist doch praktisch, wenn man alte Settings wieder aufleben lässt. Man muss sich nichts neues ausdenken, neue Spieler kennen es nicht, und werden es erst recht kaufen...
Naja, um Dark Sun fand ich es immer schade, das war ein cooles Setting, das können sie ruhig nochmal bringen, aber ansonsten schreit es ein bisschen nach: Wir haben keine neuen Ideen, machen wir noch mal Geld mit den alten Sachen.

[Archoangel]

Mist...wenn die wirklich Dark Sun herausbringen wird die 4e wieder interessanter.

They mentioned Greyhawk, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, and Spelljammer

Weis man, ob die Liste willkürlich gesetzt ist, oder ist da schon eine Reihenfolge drinnen? (dann wäre das wohl 2012).

[Eraboles]

And the fact that a setting is "on the list" shouldn't be taken as "Wizards is definitely publishing this setting." It just means the setting is on the list for possible future use.

Das sollte Antwort genug sein^^

[Zechi]

Es gibt weitere Neuigkeiten:

You may have noticed that my column is a little late this month. That's because things have been even crazier as we get closer and closer to the launch of D&D 4th Edition. I spent a lot of this past month on the road. It started in early April with a trip to I-CON at Stony Brook University in Long Island, New York. Mike Mearls and I gave a 4E Preview Seminar to a packed hall, ran a bunch of demos, and talked to very enthusiastic fans. We had a wonderful time, met lots of wonderful people, and had a lot of fun showing off the new game system.

Then I traveled to Los Angeles with The Rouse and Chris Youngs, to hold a series of press conferences with various media outlets including the gang from G4's MMO Report. We talked all about 4th Edition, including the physical products and the digital offerings, and showed off the latest versions of the D&D Game Table and D&D Character Visualizer. These components are getting closer and closer to completion with each iteration, and I can't wait to start playing for real with the release versions. Soon, soon.

Finally, last week I was at the GAMA Trade Show in Las Vegas, showing off the first production copies of the three core rulebooks (Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual), H1: Keep on the Shadowfell, and the new D&D Dungeon Master's Screen. I'm happy with the finished products, and everyone who came by and spoke to me seemed enthusiastic and excited as well.

This month, I also ordered the D&D Insider team to ramp up the preview content and show off the system. We've been releasing artwork and key sections of the core rulebooks three times a week, and the response continues to be great. We're closing in on D&D 4E Release Day (June 6th) and D&D Game Day (June 7th) -- and I can't wait for the products to hit the stores and for people to start playing! Soon, soon.
Campaign Settings

I wanted to take a few moments to clarify what I said at GTS last week. In regards to campaign settings, our goal for this edition is to make each setting we release unique and exciting on its own while still making it usable in any D&D campaign. Now, what exactly does that mean?

You wouldn't believe how many times over the years I've heard people say "I play in [insert favorite campaign setting here] so product X is of no use to me," or "I only play Core D&D (whatever that means) so I can't use that [insert campaign setting here] product." I plan to change that under 4th Edition by getting the word out that it's okay to mix and match. Go ahead. Get peanut butter in the chocolate. Some of the best campaigns I ever ran or had the pleasure to play in had a little bit of [insert campaign setting here] mixed with a smattering of [insert other campaign setting here] and combined all that with homebrew ideas to create something totally new and different.

So under 4th Edition, we're making every product look like a core product. The Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide releasing in August, for example, is a separate and unique setting on one hand, while being totally core D&D on the other. That means you can play a strictly Forgotten Realms campaign, or you can borrow the bits you like best to use in whatever D&D campaign you're playing in. This has always been true, but you wouldn't believe how many players were reluctant to cross the streams like that. I say cross away! (At least as far as your personal campaigns are concerned.) Why not use the best ideas, powers, feats, monsters, villains, and plot hooks from any product -- regardless of the campaign world your game is set in?

This means we won't be producing campaign lines, per se. For the Forgotten Realms, for example, you'll get the Campaign Guide, Player's Guide, and an adventure as physical products, as well as our ongoing line of bestselling novels, and plenty of ongoing support via D&D Insider. If a product idea comes along later that makes sense, we'll do it, but there won't be an ongoing regular release schedule of Forgotten Realms game products. Why not? Because every D&D product we do is a Forgotten Realms [or insert your favorite campaign setting here] game product. This is a subtle but significant change in philosophy geared toward making all players D&D players. It just makes the products and the brand stronger if every player is using the same material.

This is significantly different than what has occurred in the past. We won't be making the mistakes of line proliferation that helped sink TSR, and we won't be actively segmenting our audience. Instead we'll be providing all kinds of options and ideas through the core line of D&D RPG products. It's all D&D, all the time.

The model described above will be used every year, and we'll focus on a different campaign setting. Next year, we'll give this treatment to Eberron. After that? Well, we'll be exploring the best worlds from our vault, as well as creating new worlds as warranted. I can't guarantee which worlds will see this treatment as of yet, but chances are that your favorite campaign setting is on my list for consideration. And for all of them, in addition to the physical products we do, you'll see novels and novel lines (as appropriate), and ongoing support that continues to explore the worlds through D&D Insider. This plan makes D&D stronger, without sacrificing the heart of any campaign setting.

Next month… H1: Keep on the Shadowfell releases, complete with D&D Quick Start Rules and ready-to-play characters. Everyone will be able to start playing 4E!
Keep playing!

--Bill Slavicsek

Also tatsächlich erstmal nur drei FR-Produkte und dann erstmal nichts mehr, aber 2010 wird spannend.

Gruß Zechi

[Der Tod]

Hmmm, ich bin nicht sicher wie ich das finden soll.
Eigentlich mochte ich die jeweiligen Settings so gern, eben weil sie ganz anders sind als andere. Oder sagen wir mal so: Ein FR, in das man Eberron mischen kann ohne dass sich viel ändert...ist das dann noch FR? Und was ist mit all dem Zusatzmaterial aus kommenden Büchern - das muss dann ja theorethisch, nach dieser Logik, alles in alle Welten passen. Wie unterschiedlich und einzigartig können die dann noch sein? Böse gefragt: Definieren sich Kampagnensettings nur noch über die Wandbeschaffenheit der Dungeons?
Aber andererseits kann ich mir eigentlich nicht vorstellen, dass eine professionelle Truppe wie Wizards alles, was jahrelang aufgebaut und gepflegt wurde zu Pampe verkommen lässt. Ich bin gespannt wie dieses neue Konzept aussehen wird und beobachte die Entwicklung mit Interesse.

[Windjammer]

This means we won't be producing campaign lines, per se. For the Forgotten Realms, for example, you'll get the Campaign Guide, Player's Guide, and an adventure as physical products ... If a product idea comes along later that makes sense, we'll do it, but there won't be an ongoing regular release schedule of Forgotten Realms game products. Why not? Because every D&D product we do is a Forgotten Realms [or insert your favorite campaign setting here] game product. This is a subtle but significant change in philosophy geared toward making all players D&D players.

Dann mal viel Glueck. Wie die Kunden auf so was ("Setting-spezifisch ja und nein") bisher reagiert haben, hat man bei Underdark gut gesehen. Wie bei der 4E insgesamt unterstellen sich die Wotzies ein gewaltiges Potential, die Erwartungshaltung ihrer Kunden umzukrempeln. Kann funktionieren, muss aber nicht.

This is significantly different than what has occurred in the past. We won't be making the mistakes of line proliferation that helped sink TSR, and we won't be actively segmenting our audience. Instead we'll be providing all kinds of options and ideas through the core line of D&D RPG products.

Auch hier. Der gleiche Mann, der am Anfang "I play Core D&D" belaechelt ("Core D&D (what is that?)"), preist es hier als die Ultraloesung an. Tatsaechlich sollte man endlich mal Leute mit home-brewed settings als solche respektvoll ansprechen.
Davon ab, hat man in den letzten 20 Jahren sehr gut gesehen, dass einzelne Settings zu fanatischer Anfaengerschaft + dazugehoerigem Kaufverhalten verleiten. Seiner Maer von TSR glaube ich insofern nicht, zumal es andere Analysen gibt. TSR ist sicher nicht wegen Planescape, Dark Sun, Birthright, und Spell Jammer untergegangen.

[Zechi]

Seiner Maer von TSR glaube ich insofern nicht, zumal es andere Analysen gibt. TSR ist sicher nicht wegen Planescape, Dark Sun, Birthright, und Spell Jammer untergegangen.

Echt, wo gibt es die bitte? Die vielen Campaign Settings sind sicherlich nicht der einzige Grund gewesen, aber sicherlich einer der Hauptgründe. Bill war zudem ja dabei und sollte es wissen. Zudem wird das in der umfangreichen D&D Chronik von Gamespy bestätigt:

"I started doing freelance work for TSR in 1990," Slavicsek said, "and I joined full time in 1993 to work as a designer and editor in the Dark Sun/Ravenloft group. By the time I got there, TSR was a compete mess." According to Slavicsek, TSR was extremely deficient in market research, and while it was very focused on individual line sales, it never bothered to look at the big picture of what its strategy was doing to the market.

"Picture it this way," Slavicsek says, "it's raining money outside and you want to catch as much of it as you can. You can either make a really big bucket or waste your time and attention by creating a lot really small buckets -- either way, you're never going to make more rain." In plain English, TSR, by putting out a lot of product lines instead of supporting the main Dungeons & Dragons line, fragmented the marketplace. The same audience was giving the same amount of money to TSR every year, which had taken on the additional financial burden of creating, producing, and supporting hundreds of products. It needed to grow the marketplace, and these brand extensions weren't doing that.

The many settings also contributed to something called "Brand Dilution." The original Dungeons & Dragons brand stood for something. You knew essentially what you were getting when you bought a D&D product. All of these new settings began to play havoc with the rule sets and philosophy of the game. As the settings grew more popular, they began to diverge from one another, advancing along their chosen philosophical paths, essentially becoming their own separate games.

In not too many years, players had stopped identifying themselves as D&D players and were instead identifying themselves by the setting they played in. A Planescape player was very different than a Forgotten Realms player, and their rule systems were beginning to become incompatible with each other. More significant from the company's point of view, though, was that players would never buy a product set in any other setting than their own. Far from catching more money in their small buckets, TSR was actually making the audience smaller!

Quelle (wer den ganzen Artikel der mehrere Teile umfasst nicht kennt, der sollte ihn mal gelesen haben).

Den letztlichen Todesstoß haben natürlich andere Ereignisse eingeleitet (siehe den selben Artikel etwas weiter), aber der Versuch viele Kampagnen zu "supporten" war sicherlich der erste Sargnagel.

Gruß Zechi

[Wormys_Queue]

Seiner Maer von TSR glaube ich insofern nicht, zumal es andere Analysen gibt. TSR ist sicher nicht wegen Planescape, Dark Sun, Birthright, und Spell Jammer untergegangen.

Der Unterschied , und den versucht WotC ja zu adressieren, ist der, dass die vielen TSR-Settings aufgrund diverser individuellen Sonderregeln inherent inkompatibel waren. Das führte zur Spaltung der Spielergemeinde in viele kleine Untergruppen und letzten Endes dazu, das sich viele Settings nicht gut genug verkauften, weil die Fangemeinde nicht groß genug war, und es als FR-Fan eben nicht zwingend Sinn machte, sich auch ein Dark Sun-Produkt zu kaufen (um es in derselben Kampagne zu nutzen).

Ich bin mir allerdings nicht im Klaren darüber, ob mir das neue Vorgehen besser gefällt. Was soll ich mit vielen Settings, die sich beliebig miteinander mischen lassen? Und wie wollen sie es schaffen, den einzigartigen Charakter eines beliebigen Settings zu bewahren und gleichzeitig diese Mischbarkeit zu gewährleisten. Wobei ich nicht weiss, ob es sich dabei lediglich um das Regelmaterial geht oder ob auch der Fluff aneinander angeglichen werden soll.

Ich stimme daher Zechi zu: 2010 wird ein sehr spannendes Jahr. Für mich sogar schon 2009, denn wenn WotC Eberron verwässert, um diese Kompatibilität durchzusetzen, dann werd ich wohl auf die fünfte Edition warten müssen.