Thema: Artefakt Identifizieren

[TheOne]

Hi Leute,

einfache Frage...... oder auch doch nicht.

Kann man ein Artefakt genauso Identifizieren wie jeden anderen magischen Gegenstand?
Wenn nicht, wie macht man das?

[Blutschwinge]

This spell functions as detect magic, except that it gives you a +10 enhancement bonus on Spellcraft checks made to identify the properties and command words of magic items in your possession. This spell does not allow you to identify artifacts.

Quelle
Artefakte sind besondere und meist einzigartige Gegenstände. Ein Weg ihre Macht zu ergründen könnte eine Recherche sein: woher kommt der Gegenstand, wer war sein vorheriger Besitzer, was ist überliefert über den Gegenstand.

[TheOne]

OK, und wo steht das man es nicht mit Magie entdecken machen kann.
OK, es gäbe keine +10 auf den Wurf, aber das wäre auch schon alles.
Ich kann da nix finden.
Was den Zauber Identifizieren angeht, da hast de recht. Aber an den hab ich noch nicht mal gedacht da ich den nicht kann.
Aber man kann ja auch mit Magie entdecken nen Magischen Gegenstand Identifizieren.
SG wären halt 15+Zauberstufe des GEgenstandes.
Ein Stufe 10 Magier das das Maximiert hat kommt da schon mal auf über 15 Punkte, wenn er dann ne 20 Würfelt dann erkennt er doch sogar das fetteste Artefakt aus dem Grundregelwerk. Weil die haben max Zauberstufe 20.
Oder hab ich was vergessen.
Ach so, es geht nicht darum was ihr denkt, ich bin auch der Ansicht das ein Spieler nicht so einfach rauskriegen soll was ein Artefakt so alles kann. Es geht nur um die Regeln

[Blutschwinge]

Über Spellcraft geht das wohl, tatsächlich finde ich ncihts anderes.
Aber die Casterlevel der Artefakte beginnen bei 16, die meisten sind 20 oder höher. Das heißt der SG für Spellcraft liegt meist bei 35+. Da muss auch ein hochstufiger Magier gut würfeln.

[TheOne]

Hochstufiger Magier, naja, nehmen wir mal "nur" Stufe 10 mit Intelligenz von 18 und Elf mit Fertigkeitsfokus.
Maximiert kommt er dann auf entspannt  10+4+2+6= +22
Da erkennt er schon ne Menge.
Aber das wäre ja egal, mir ging es um die Regeln

[Nappo]

This spell functions as detect magic, except that it gives you a +10 enhancement bonus on Spellcraft checks made to identify the properties and command words of magic items in your possession. This spell does not allow you to identify artifacts.

Quelle
Artefakte sind besondere und meist einzigartige Gegenstände. Ein Weg ihre Macht zu ergründen könnte eine Recherche sein: woher kommt der Gegenstand, wer war sein vorheriger Besitzer, was ist überliefert über den Gegenstand.

wobei Legend Lore recht hilfreich sein könnte

[Azmodan]

Ich habs ausm SRD geklaut: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/artifacts

Researching Artifacts

Many artifacts are storied treasures, their legends passed down through cultures and ages. Others are mysteries of the multiverse, sequestered by eternal powers and kept from the knowledge of shortsighted mortals. Regardless of their myths or owners, though, artifacts have a certain way of falling into the hands of adventurers, and adventurers prove to be insatiably curious sorts. Thus, anytime an artifact appears, a GM should know how the players can learn more about the fantastic treasure now in their possession.

Spellcraft Checks: At their most basic level, artifacts are magic items and can be identified as such through the use of the Spellcraft skill. However, as the DC of such a check is based on the magic item's caster level, the challenge of identifying an artifact's abilities typically exceeds a DC of 35. A challenge of this magnitude exceeds the abilities of many low-level parties, and makes immediate identification less than a sure or immediate thing for even mid-level groups—though such characters typically have spells on hand to identify magic items (see Magical Identification, below). If a single die roll's ability to reveal the awesome powers of an ancient and legendary artifact seems too commonplace, GMs should feel free to increase the DC of such a Spellcraft check by +10 or more, or even make the artifact unidentifiable via this method. This might be heavy-handed in the case of some minor artifacts, or even major artifacts like Orbs of Dragonkind or the Thorncrown of Iomedae, whose abilities are the stuff of legend, but for artifacts that have been lost for millennia—like Saint Cuthbert's Mace or the Lens of Galundari—it wouldn't be too unreasonable to say that the PCs have never encountered documents detailing magic of this kind, and so are unable to accurately identify much beyond the artifacts' schools of magic and general power levels. The GM should determine whether or not an artifact can be identified using Spellcraft, and the DC of that check if it's nonstandard, before introducing it into his game.

Knowledge Checks: Similar to Spellcraft checks, a GM may deem that a character can learn about an artifact's abilities by checking to see whether she has prior knowledge of the item. Allowing PCs to learn about artifacts in this manner raises all the same challenges and concerns as using Spellcraft checks to reveal details. The biggest difference is that Knowledge skills encompass a variety of academic focuses, any of which might reveal some secret about an artifact's abilities, as determined by the GM. If a GM intends to use Knowledge checks as the method by which artifacts are identified, he should first choose which Knowledge skill (or skills) pertains to a particular artifact. Knowledge (arcana) should not serve as a catch-all for the purpose of learning about artifacts, though an artifact with significant ties to magical mysteries or the other topics the skill relates to (like arcane symbols, constructs, and dragons) might make this the most logical skill to use in revealing its properties. In this way, characters who have put numerous ranks into specific Knowledge skills—especially atypical ones like Knowledge (geography) or Knowledge (history)—might find themselves rewarded by knowing something about such an obscure treasure. By the same token, this method makes bards using their bardic knowledge ability particularly adept a revealing an artifact's secrets—a talent thematically appropriate for that class. As with Spellcraft, the DC of a Knowledge check made to learn about an artifact equals 15 + the artifact's caster level + any ad hoc adjustments the GM sees fit.

GMs might also choose to take a cue from the Knowledge skill's description of identifying the abilities and vulnerabilities of monsters. In this way, a GM might reveal only the most basic properties of an artifact to a PC who makes a Knowledge check exceeding the set DC. Then, for every 5 points by which the character's result exceeds the DC, the GM might reveal an additional, more obscure detail. While this method can quickly increase the already significant DCs required to identify artifacts, it gives the GM a way to retain some measure of an artifact's mystery, while still granting the PCs the details they need to utilize the treasure. Additionally, this method should encourage the PCs to seek other methods to reveal more of an artifact's secrets, such as magic that improves their skill checks, and to seek locations to conduct research regarding the item (see Research, below).

Magical Identification: As artifacts exceed the powers of most mortal magic-users and their spells, identifying them by magical means proves far more difficult and far less reliable than identifying normal magic items. Artifacts in your Game

Identification The spells identify and analyze dweomer specifically do not aid in revealing the abilities of artifacts. This makes legend lore one of the only spells useful for revealing a measure of an artifact's secrets. This spell, however, does not describe the item's abilities in concrete game terms, instead detailing its history and tales surrounding it. Legend lore can still prove useful to GMs, however, as it helps an artifact retain its air of mystery. Legend lore might allow PCs to learn the general powers and dangers of an item and perhaps even how to employ it with a degree of effectiveness, but still cloak the full sum of its properties. Consequently, the PCs will likely never possess a spell they can rely upon to quickly force the GM to describe all of an artifact's secrets.

Research: In many cases, artifacts are unique creations and details about them prove far too limited to find in just any common history or lorebook. Therefore, the likelihood of a PC having once stumbled across a specific artifact's details and now be able to remember them is effectively nil. This makes deliberate research in a specialized place of learning or repository of knowledge necessary to reveal an artifact's abilities. GMs who choose this method of revealing an artifact's details encourage the PCs to leave the dungeon and head for the library. For some players this might add weight and a sense of realism to learning about an artifact, as well as giving learned PCs an opportunity to shine. For others, though, it might seem like a halt to the action. Both opinions are valid, and so GMs should weigh whether or not conducting research reinforces an artifact's sense of mystery and is a valuable addition to the game.

To conduct research into an artifact's lore, the PCs must first determine where to initiate their investigation. This might mean heading to a sage's collection, a city library, a region's most esteemed university, or a hidden trove of knowledge lost for ages. At the GM's discretion, some collections might not prove significant enough to hold details about an artifact—the goal of the PCs' research, after all, is finding some obscure writing describing the artifact's powers (or, if that seems unrealistic, a combination of descriptions, legends, and histories that, together with a PC's insights, sparks some related revelation). Thus, a noble's collection of romances might not prove appropriate for research. On the other hand, once the PCs do find a place with considerable scholarly resources, the GM might decide to grant them bonuses on the skill checks they make to conduct their research, from +2 in a library well stocked with related texts, to +5 in a collection with unique resources and a helpful staff (or even higher if conditions are truly peerless). Researching an artifact requires 1 week of investigation, at the end of which a PC makes a related Knowledge check (see Knowledge Checks, above). If the result exceeds this DC, the PC has learned an artifact's history and abilities (or a portion of them, as noted above). If the result fails, the PC has discovered nothing and, at the GM's discretion, that collection of knowledge might simply not hold the information the characters seek, forcing the PCs to search for another.

Sages: Some artifacts are so obscure, alien, or unique that they are unknown to both legend and academia, and almost no one knows anything about them. That's where sages enter in. In this case, the term “sage” refers to anyone with special knowledge of an artifact. This might be a scholar with a very specific field of study, a tome written all about a certain topic, a mummy that lived through a relevant time, or an artifact's very creator. In any of these cases, the sage is the only way the PCs can learn about an artifact's history and properties, and while the sage's knowledge might be unique, information about the sage is not. A few Diplomacy or Knowledge (local) checks might be all it takes for a party to learn about a sage's existence, setting the PCs upon the proper path. From there, the GM is free to make learning about the artifact as straightforward or challenging as he wishes—the sage might be local and eager to help, or might be fickle or nearly legendary, requiring further adventures to earn her knowledge or even find her. Using this method, the PCs have no ability to learn about an artifact's powers, but the GM retains complete control over what details they do eventually learn, the veracity of those facts, and the direct opportunity to turn learning about an artifact into its own adventure.