Umfrage

Welche Wild Shape Version nutzt ihr?

3.0E-Version
2 (3.7%)
3.5E-Version (PHB)
16 (29.6%)
3.5E-Version (letzte Errata)
16 (29.6%)
3.5E-Version (irgendeine vorherige Errata)
3 (5.6%)
Pathfinder Beta
0 (0%)
Pathfinder Final
6 (11.1%)
Shifting Version (aus PHB II, p. 39)
4 (7.4%)
Eigene Version, nämlich... (bitte im Thread angeben)
1 (1.9%)
nichts von alledem, Wild shape ist verboten
2 (3.7%)
Ganz anders, und zwar... (bitte im Thread angeben)
1 (1.9%)
Version nach Rich Burlew
3 (5.6%)
Andere Version, nämlich... (bitte im Thread angeben)
0 (0%)

Stimmen insgesamt: 53

Umfrage geschlossen: 04. Februar 2010, 11:15:17

Autor Thema: Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape  (Gelesen 3768 mal)

Beschreibung:

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Ariadne

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« am: 21. Januar 2010, 01:07:56 »
Ein weiteres riesiges Diskussionsthema ist "wild shape" (Tiergestalt) des Druiden. Selbst jetzt gibt es noch geügend Stimmen, die mit der Wild Shape-Regelung nicht zufrieden sind.

Zusammengefasst wurden mal diverse Versionen:

3.0 sagt
Zitat
Wild Shape: At 5th level, a druid gains the spell-like ability to polymorph self into a Small or Medium-size animal (but not a dire animal) and back again once per day. Unlike the standard use of the spell, however, the druid may only adopt one form. As stated in the spell description, the druid regains hit points as if he or she has rested for a day. The druid does not risk the standard penalty for being disoriented while in the wild shape.
The druid can use this ability more times per day at 6th, 7th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level, as noted. In addition, the druid gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 8th level, a Tiny animal at 11th level, and a Huge animal at 15th level. At 12th level or higher, she can take the form of a dire animal.
At 16th level or higher, the druid may use wild shape to change into a Small, Medium-size, or Large air, earth, fire, or water elemental once per day. The druid gains all the elemental's special abilities. At 18th level, the druid can do this three times per day.


3.5E orginal PHB-Version
Zitat
Wild Shape (Su): At 5th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type (see the Monster Manual). This ability functions like the polymorph spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.
The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with. For example, a druid who has never been outside a  temperate forest could not become a polar bear. A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the
same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)
A druid can use this ability more times per day at 6th, 7th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level, as noted on Table 3–8: The Druid. In addition,
she gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 8th level, a Tiny animal at 11th level, and a Huge animal at 15th level. The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s druid level. For instance, a druid can’t take the form of a dire bear (a Large creature that always has at least 12 HD) until 12th level, even though she can begin  taking Large forms at 8th level.
At 12th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a plant creature, such as a shambling mound, with the
same size restrictions as for animal forms. (A druid can’t use this ability to take the form of a plant that isn’t a creature,
such as a tree or a rose bush.) At 16th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a Small, Medium, or Large elemental (air, earth, fire, or water) once per day. These elemental forms are in addition to her normal wild shape usage. In addition to the normal effects of wild shape, the druid gains all the elemental’s extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities.
She also gains the elemental’s feats for as long as she maintains the wild shape, but she retains her own creature type (humanoid, in most cases). At 18th level, a druid becomes able to assume elemental form twice per day, and at 20th level
she can do so three times per day. At 20th level, a druid may use this wild shape ability to change into a Huge elemental.

Damit war man auch nicht zufrieden, weshalb gefühlte 100 Erratas heraus kamen. Die letzte:
3.5E (letzte Errata)
Zitat
Wild Shape (Su)

At 5th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Each time you use wild shape, you regain lost hit points as if you had rested for a night.

Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When the druid reverts to her true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on her body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off and land at the druid's feet.

The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with.

A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)

A druid can use this ability more times per day at 6th, 7th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level, as noted on Table: The Druid. In addition, she gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 8th level, a Tiny animal at 11th level, and a Huge animal at 15th level.

The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s druid level.

At 12th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a plant creature with the same size restrictions as for animal forms. (A druid can’t use this ability to take the form of a plant that isn’t a creature.)

At 16th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a Small, Medium, or Large elemental (air, earth, fire, or water) once per day. These elemental forms are in addition to her normal wild shape usage. In addition to the normal effects of wild shape, the druid gains all the elemental’s extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities. She also gains the elemental’s feats for as long as she maintains the wild shape, but she retains her own creature type.

At 18th level, a druid becomes able to assume elemental form twice per day, and at 20th level she can do so three times per day. At 20th level, a druid may use this wild shape ability to change into a Huge elemental.

Irgendwie war das so auch nicht in Ordnung und Bilder von Wölfen in Klamotten drehten die Runde. Zwischendrin kam dann noch die Shifting Version aus dem PHB II (S. 39) auf, die von diversen Stellen ebenfalls zu Genüge zerrissen wurde.

Also probierte Pathfinder was neues:

Pathfinder Beta (S. 25) hat das draus gemacht:
Zitat
Wild Shape (Su): At 4th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the beast shape I spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back)
is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with.
A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.) A druid can use this ability an additional time per day at 6th level and every two levels thereafter, for a total of eight times at 18th level. At 20th level, a druid can use wild shape at will. As a druid gains in levels, this ability allows the druid to take on the form of larger and smaller animals,  elementals, and plants. Each form expends one daily usage  of this ability, regardless of the form taken. At 6th level, a druid can use wild shape to change into a Large or Tiny animal or a Small elemental. When taking the form of an animal, a druid’s wild shape now functions as beast shape II. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid’s wild shape functions as elemental body I.
At 8th level, a druid can use wild shape to change into a Huge or Diminutive animal, a Medium elemental, or a Small or Medium plant creature. When taking the form of animals, a druid’s wild shape now functions as beast shape III. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid’s wild shape now functions as elemental body II. When taking the form of a plant creature, the druid’s wild shape functions as plant shape I. At 10th level, a druid can use wild shape to change into a Large elemental or a Large plant creature. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid’s wild shape now functions as elemental body III. When taking the form of a plant, the druid’s wild shape now functions as plant shape II. At 12th level, a druid can use wild shape to change into a Huge elemental or a Huge plant creature. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid’s wild shape now functions as elemental body IV. When taking the form of a plant, the druid’s wild shape now functions as plant shape III.

Gut, das klingt jetzt nicht so schrecklich... BIS, ja bis man sich die relevanten Zauber durchliest. Ich bringe jetzt nicht alle, sondern die relevanten Stellen von 2:

Zitat
Elemental Body I

Air elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small air elemental, you gain a +2 enhancement bonus to your Dexterity and a +2 natural armor bonus. You also gain fly 60 feet (perfect), darkvision 60 feet, and the ability to create a whirlwind.
Earth elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small earth elemental, you gain a +2 enhancement bonus to your Strength and a +4 natural armor bonus. You also gain darkvision 60 feet, the push ability, and the ability to earthglide.
Fire elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small fire elemental, you gain a +2 enhancement bonus to your Dexterity and a +2 natural armor bonus. Your base land speed also increases by 10 feet. You gain darkvision 60 feet, resist fire 20, vulnerability to cold, and the burn ability.
Water elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small water elemental, you gain a +2 enhancement bonus to your Constitution and a +4 natural armor bonus. You also gain swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, and the ability to create a vortex.

Zitat
Beast Shape I

When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, lowlight vision, and scent.
Small animal: If the form you take is that of a Small animal, you gain a +2 enhancement bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Medium animal: If the form you take is that of a Medium animal, you gain a +2 enhancement bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus.

Der darauf gefolgte Aufschrei war ja schon durchaus berechtigt. Auch die Pathfinder haben danach zumindest etwas eingesehen, dass sie mit diesem Kahlschlag ein bissi ZU weit gegangen sind. Ergebnis:

Der Text zu Wildshape ist der gleiche, wie im Pathfinder beta.

ABER die Zauber wurden zumindest etwas verbessert:

Beast Shape I
Zitat
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent.

Small animal: If the form you take is that of a Small animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Medium animal: If the form you take is that of a Medium animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus.

Elemental Body I
Zitat
ir elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small air elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +2 natural armor bonus. You also gain fly 60 feet (perfect), darkvision 60 feet, and the ability to create a whirlwind.

Earth elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small earth elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +4 natural armor bonus. You also gain darkvision 60 feet, the push ability, and the ability to earth glide.

Fire elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small fire elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +2 natural armor bonus. You gain darkvision 60 feet, resist fire 20, vulnerability to cold, and the burn ability.

Water elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small water elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Constitution and a +4 natural armor bonus. You also gain swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, the ability to create a vortex, and the ability to breathe water.

Na, immerhin. Damit kann man dann sogar fast was anfangen...



Wie seht ihr das? Welche Version nehmt ihr? 3.0, 3.5, eigene, Shifting, keine?
« Letzte Änderung: 13. Februar 2010, 02:24:16 von Ariadne »
Epische Herausforderung 2005: Mittendrin statt nur dabei!

Playing 4E? Fix the Pixies first!

Drumlin

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #1 am: 21. Januar 2010, 07:17:54 »
Ich benutze eine Errata der 3.5E-Version hier vom Gate, weiß nicht, ob das die letzte war.
"Bluten ist eine freie Aktion."

Seelenquell

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #2 am: 21. Januar 2010, 07:36:56 »
Ich habe bei meinem letzten Druiden die Shapeshifting Option aus dem PHB2 genutzt und war/bin sehr zufrieden damit. Kein blödes Bookkeeping mehr (zumindest nicht für Wildshape). Da wir sonst noch keinen Druiden hatten, würde ich sagen, dass es entweder die PHB2 oder die PHB3.5-mit-Errata wäre, die wir benutzen.

widdi

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #3 am: 21. Januar 2010, 08:50:07 »
Ganz anders und zwar... nach der Methode von Rich Burlew.
Und ich tippe mal, dass es noch einigen anderen so gehen wird. Also schlage ich vor die Antwortmöglichkeit auch noch in die Umfrage aufzunehmen.
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Wormys_Queue

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #4 am: 21. Januar 2010, 10:55:02 »
Die letzten paar Male haben wirs einfach so gehandhabt, dass der jeweilige Druide ohne wild shape gespielt wurde, gibts ja die ein oder andere Regelvariante dazu. Wild Shape ist nicht per se verboten, aber auch nicht sonderlich erwünscht.
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Ariadne

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #5 am: 21. Januar 2010, 11:12:57 »
Ganz anders und zwar... nach der Methode von Rich Burlew.
Und ich tippe mal, dass es noch einigen anderen so gehen wird. Also schlage ich vor die Antwortmöglichkeit auch noch in die Umfrage aufzunehmen.
Wird erledigt... :)
Epische Herausforderung 2005: Mittendrin statt nur dabei!

Playing 4E? Fix the Pixies first!

DU#1229

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #6 am: 21. Januar 2010, 12:18:44 »
Pathfinder final.
Ehrlich gesagt nutzen wir das Regelwerk mittlerweile ohne Ergänzungen, da es sich dann schneller spielt und ich mehr Zeit fürs Vorbereiten der Abenteuer habe und nicht noch anfangen muss, Regeländerungen zu implementieren oder gar diverse Regeländerungen auszuprobieren, bevor wir sie im Spiel anwenden.

Lich

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #7 am: 21. Januar 2010, 14:21:58 »
Ich habe alles mal ausgetestet. In Zukunft wird es allerdings Pathfinder Final sein.
Liches are cold, scheming creatures that hunger for ever
greater power, long-forgotten knowledge, and the most terrible of arcane secrets. (MM 4Ed)
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Thanee

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #8 am: 21. Januar 2010, 14:31:15 »
3.5 final

Bye
Thanee

Topas

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #9 am: 21. Januar 2010, 14:43:24 »
Momentan mal wieder keinerlei Druide in der Runde.
Immense harm is caused by the belief that work is virtuous.
- Bertrand Russel

Darastin

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #10 am: 21. Januar 2010, 16:44:21 »
Shapeshift aus dem PHB2. Wobei das IMHO ein wenig überkompensiert (immerhin fällt der Tiergefährte ja auch weg), aber allemal besser als ein Core-DruidZilla.

Bis bald;
Darastin
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Ariadne

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #11 am: 21. Januar 2010, 16:57:13 »
Komplett zufrieden bin ich irgendwie mit keiner Version richtig. Am ehesten gefällt mir noch die original 3.5E-PHB-Version, die meisten Erratas haben das eher verschlimmbessert. Die Vorteile von alternate Form liegen zwar auch auf der Hand, aber die nicht zu ändernden TP waren für mich der Tilt, weil einfach unlogisch. Richtig schrecklich fand ich übrigens die Pathfinder Beta Version, gefolgt von Shifting. Allerdings konnte man mit Shifting zumindest low-level durchaus noch was anfangen...
Epische Herausforderung 2005: Mittendrin statt nur dabei!

Playing 4E? Fix the Pixies first!

Arldwulf

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #12 am: 22. Januar 2010, 13:35:30 »
Die Pathfinderregeln mag ich bezüglich Polymorph und Shapeshift gar nicht, auch nicht in der finalversion.

3.5 so wie es ursprünglich war ist eigentlich die Version mit der ich am wenigsten Probleme hab aber insgesamt sind alle Lösungen wohl nicht optimal.
1st Edition Nekromantentöter
--------
Ich hab nichts gegen niedrige Wahlbeteiligung. Irgendwann regier ich den Laden eben alleine. ;-)

TheRaven

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #13 am: 22. Januar 2010, 14:44:36 »
Momentan keine, da kein D&D aber früher: Wild Link
Die Wissenschaft nötigt uns, den Glauben an einfache Kausalitäten aufzugeben.
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Drazon

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Regelfrage der Woche Nr. 98 - Wild Shape
« Antwort #14 am: 22. Januar 2010, 15:43:05 »
Wenn wir D&D spielen die 3.5 PHB-Version, wenn wir Pathfinder spielen. Ich finde die Änderung an den Verwandlungszaubern (und damit an der Tiergestalt des Druiden) in PF gar nicht mal so schlecht.
Unveränderlichkeit ist Katastrophe.